bad photo shoot, Canon Digi Rebel help

[Emma]

My friend came over to do some newborn shots, and she left her Canon Digi Rebel here with me to take some more. We were both clueless, LOL, and didn't really get anything worth getting.

I need a crash course on using this thing: she left her manual and Quick Guide.

I can change my aperture and shutter speed in Manual Mode, but I can't figure out how to change the Exposure compensation while in Manual (that button changes the aperture).

I need to learn how to take a meter reading (what do those flashing numbers mean?!!!)

Seems we SHOULD have had enough light for good shots (5.6 at 1/125), but I had to jack the Exposure Compensation way up (had to adjust in a different mode, then switch back to manual). Didn't understand what the meter reading was telling me to do. It wanted such a long shutter speed at the aperture I wanted that the camera shake was really bad, and the baby couldn't move at all or that body part was blurred.

With the external flash, the built in wouldn't pop up (or fire, of course).

She left me her portrait lens (maybe 85? Maybe 50mm??? I'll have to check), but I don't know how to use that. She also left the regular lens, can't remember what mm that is (all purpose, but not the kit lens).

Any advice would be appreciated from all of you who own this camera or can give general exposure advice on these. Attached some shots for you to see:

[Cynnder]

OK let see if I can help you out some

first of all..you cant change exposure compensation while in Manual..its is only for the different modes, like AV aperture Priority and TV, shutter priority) If you are using full manual there will be no reason to compensate anything.

IF you have FLASHING numbers...it means that the camera is telling you your dont have enough light or the correct exposure. You want it so there are NO flashing Numbers...thats a warning!

the meter, if your using Manual.....where the numebrs are...has a thingy...with 2...1...0...1...2

right above that will be a little wee line..that bounces around..you want to fiddle with your shutter speed and or your aperture until the little line is directly above the 0...iif its to the left..your image will be underexposed...to the right it will be overexposed...


Im guessing infact you didnt have enough light..if you were having flashing numbers...which maybe be why things are kinda blurry and off

the 1/125th second shutter speed should be good for what you wanted to do.. I would stick it in TV..set the shutter speed to 1/125...then play with the lighting...you need enough to make the number ( fstop, aperture to shtop flashing)

With the external flash, the built in wouldn't pop up (or fire, of course). no clue on that one...should have popped..

find out what her lens are...if you can go to a lower fstop...that will let in more light... the 50mm maybe either 1.8 or 1.4...either way if you used an 3.5 fstop or something aorund that it would let in way more light...enabling you to get the 1.125th sec ss you want.

hope i helped some!

[Cuda]

For the total noob maybe this would be worth while. I just orderded as I thought it might help me get familiar with the camera. I just ordered it so I do not have either the camera nor the DVD in hand.

So I have no idea if this training DVD is worth it or not.

https://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=4-8-20-7059

[okieinalaska]

You want to adjust the iso if you dont have enough light to get the shutter or aperature you need. Not exposure compensation. : ) I dont think I have ever even messed with the exposure compensation to be honest (unless maybe I was out in the snow or something)

Remember to check your WIFE:
White balance (if you are in manual you need to pick the correct one)
ISO
F stop
Exposure.

Pic an fstop you want to work in. Say f4. Put it in around 400-800 iso depending on light if you are indoors. Then look through the lens at the little meter.... adjust the shutter speed until you get the line in the middle of the marks. If you still cant get it to go to the middle or if the shutter speed is too slow and will cause blurry then up the iso some more and try again.

You may have to use the flash or be by the window with lots of natural light.

If all else fails put it in auto and let the camera figure it out. Or pick A mode and the fstop you want and let the camera figure the shutter speed. : )

Have fun. : )

[Jennifer]

Emma, Amy just gave you the ONE-TWO-THREE punch there. Exactly what she said, put it in Manual, choose your f stop for depth of field you want to maintain and then the ony other two things you'll do is up your ISO while watching the meter until you get to a speed that's adequate... (1/125 for hand holding is good, 1/60 for tripod and moving baby). Don't be afraid to use the ISO as another way of adjusting exposure, if you nail the exposure, you won't have a noise/grain issue to deal with. And as Deanna said, exposure compensation is basically an 'override' of what settings the camera chooses in one of it's automatic modes... if you want to compensate exposure in manual, you just keep turning the dial to + or - what you want. Hope this all helps, and that baby is just too dang cute!!!!

[TwylaG]

It wanted such a long shutter speed at the aperture I wanted that the camera shake was really bad, and the baby couldn't move at all or that body part was blurred.
this is what happened for my wedding shoot (aside from the whole tripod explosion)

[okieinalaska]

[QUOTE=Jennifer] 1/60 for tripod and moving baby QUOTE]

Oh cool! I didnt know that the tripod would help THAT much with a moving baby. So it kind of gives you an extra stop?? Or is that not the way to look at it?

[Emma]

Okay, I think it was my ISO choice. I upped it to 200 and got a good exposure: shooting on black, then on white, so I had to mess with things a little bit (which is good and the reason that I may someday be smarter than the Auto setting...) I also changed the metering to center weighted and that made the camera happier.

I'm having issues now with the focus and the props. Shooting babies is really, really hard! The side of her face is always squished because she's lying on her side, if I try to prop her up or pad things at all she sinks into it making half her face or one arm or leg covered up too much. She is eating her fist or the prop the whole time, if she opens her mouth too much I have a lot of thrush to clone off her tongue! It's such a pain, and I'm getting really, really frustrated.

I also don't understand why I'm having focusing issues. I don't even know what to ask there. I'm using AF and manual, and neither seems to be turning out.

[Emma]

oh, and what shutter speed do I need to use to have a movement not be blurred? Her hand or foot is blurry in many of the shots from flailing...why won't she stay asleep?!

[okieinalaska]

at least 1/125. If you still can't get that shutter speed up the iso some more. 400 is perfectly acceptable, but the higher you go the more noise you have.

On focusing pay attention to the which square is highlighted as focused. Do you focus and recompose? You should put the focus point on the babies eyes and either use the backbutton to focus and then recompose the shot the way you want (not sure if rebel does backbutton or how) or focus and recompose using the shutter button pressed half way down.

DSLR's are trickier than you think. It takes practice. I was ready to pull my hair out at first and I had experience with a film slr. (still sometimes I feel that way)

This age is hard to photograph. I did a friends baby last month and he is too young to sit up or hold his head up but too old to be bendy, LOL. His arms and legs are sticking straight out, stiff as a board, LOL. Put his car seat under the backdrop and then prop her up in it. That might help some. Or I used a basket and put a pillow in it and put a black cloth over it and propped the baby up.

[TwylaG]

I also don't understand why I'm having focusing issues. I don't even know what to ask there. I'm using AF and manual, and neither seems to be turning out.
I hear at a photog forum (and I don't know if its true of not) that about 80 percent of canon 300d lenses are "bad" lenses. I am currently at the point of considering mine one of those "bad" lenses. I just can't believe that i started out a decent focus-er and got worse at is as I went along to the point where now I can't get a single thing to focus right at all.

[Karen]

Emma your shutter speed needs to be faster than the length of the lens you are using if hand held.....so if you are using 85mm then ss needs to be above this....say 1/125 if you are using a zoom........200mm then again your shutter speed needs to be higher 1/250th.
Turn the auto focus off and focus yourself, much easier :)

[Jennifer]

I wish all those people out there who think I should sell my prints for only what the paper costs (ie... "i can print that at costco for 79 cents") could read this post! THERE'S A REASON I GET PAID! ;) Shooting babies is hard. Figuring out ISO, shutter speed, apterture, depth of field, flash, fill flash, focal length, how it all inter relates, IT'S HARD! But once you've practiced your butt off, you DESERVE to be paid for that time and practice (talent!) and the costs of equipment. And so I digress.....

Emma; I wish I could reach through the computer and just do it for you! It's so hard to explain and so much easier to 'show'. You're also being hard on yourself cause you have some pretty good images. ESPECIALLY with a new camera you don't know anything about and experimenting with settings and a wiggly baby :) My very first newborn was four days old. It gets harder and harder the older they get... under two weeks is best. Here's the image: (and yeah, I'm dang proud of it!) http://www.digitalscrapbookplace.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=91208&cat=500&ppuser=198

[Karen]

And proud you should be, thats a gorgeous shot!!!
I have an 6 week old little girl in a couple of hours, really looking forward to it as I seem to get heaps of boys and no little girls :)

[Emma]

Karen, that focal length to speed is a great nugget of knowledge I'd never heard!

Cynnder, thanks for the light meter "tutorial" you gave me; it was REALLY helpful. I remember my dad teaching me that as a kid, but I couldn't remember any of it (somehow get the pointer in that "spot" LOL!) Thank you, I finally know how to take, read, and make a decision with a meter reading :)

Twyla, I think your camera must have been damaged! My tripod got knocked over when I did a maternity shoot last year, and it was just like you said: slow motion while you pray nothing happened to it! (That camera is now on e-bay, my first e-bay listing! :eek: ) If you can't take photos with it now, it must have been damaged. The photos on your blog are gorgeous, so something must be wrong now.

Here's an image I took today
http://www.digitalscrapbookplace.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=109801
Thank goodness for post processing!

Overall, the SLR is FAR easier to control than my camera (which is why I finally decided to sell it). I love the way the lens lets me zoom and focus with the rings, and the huge and accurate preview and viewfinder is great. As soon as I sell this one I'll go to the camera store and hold all the models I'm interested in to see what I want. I'm excited, but nervous to buy such expensive equipment (especially when I'm shooting so badly!)

Karen, I tried the manual focus, but what I thought looked good turned out really blurry when I viewed on my monitor. What's the trick to that? Also, on the D=Rebel, how do you change the AF "hotspot?" Part of my problem, I realized, is that it's focusing on a side dot rather than in the center. Once I had that dot over her eyes, the focus improved, but then I had to drastically recompose, which perhaps messed up my focus (moving the camera forward or back etc).

You've all been very helpful, I can only get better from here. And honestly, I'm just tickled to death that I can actually ask these questions and understand what the heck your answers are talking about. Yay!

Jennifer, believe me, I wish you were here too. Not only would you do a good newborn shoot for me (I'm so jealous of the great shots you do for our other sisters), but you'd teach me far faster than this puttering I manage to do. I really, really, really appreciate all the time and effort you've spent teaching me. To think last year I told you I wasn't interested in photography as a hobby! Your beautiful images changed my mind, and your patience has changed my photos: I'm so grateful to you!

[Jennifer]

Emma, that's freakin' gorgeous! See, quit beating yourself up! And look what you've learned in a few DAYS with that SLR! NOW you know what I've been talkin' bout!

And what Karen said .... remember when hand holding to use the reciprocol of the focal length. If you have a 50mm lens, use 1/50 (on a camera that would be 1/60) If you are using a 200mm zoom, use 1/200 (1/250) That keeps you pretty safe.

[okieinalaska]

That is wonderful! Great job!! : )

[Emma]

well, I returned the Rebel today, was a nice day with it, and I did get a few nice photos I can use with some PS attention. I didn't get nearly the shots I wanted, with holding in the hands, siblings kissing, some props, etc, but I'll survive. None of my other kids have those either

My ebay auction got yanked because I don't have a premier PayPal account, so I'll have to sell mine some other way. I'm excited to go test drive cameras at the local pro shop, I really liked the control of the SLR

One question:

WHY would I want to use full manual if I can use Exposure Compensation in AV or TV modes? What's the benefit of one vs the other?

[Jennifer]

WHY would I want to use full manual if I can use Exposure Compensation in AV or TV modes? What's the benefit of one vs the other?Using the exposure compensation dial on your camera is only useful when the area that you are metering off, is consistently darker or lighter than "average". Then you could simply dial in the exposure compensation to have the subject appear appropriately darker or lighter. If you have a subject in bright light and there is shadows and shade in the rest of the scene, your camera will choose the wrong settings anyway and by simply using the exposure compensation will just further mess up the already wrong exposure.

Camera's only want to turn EVERYTHING IN THE SCENE to a medium 18% gray. So, if your scene is 18% gray (in other words... a neutral scene with no overly bright or shaded areas) If you're shooting a snow scene, the camera will try to darken it to make it medium gray so you can use the exp. comp. to +1 to keep it white. Conversly, the opposite applies to a dark scene, like a bunch of groomsmen in black tuxedos. The camera will lighten them to a medium gray, then use exp. compensation to dial in a -1 exposure.

[okieinalaska]

Here is my opinion and maybe Jennifer can tell me I am completely off my rocker...

I think you are kind of coming about exposure from the wrong direction. You shouldn't be using expsore compensation to get the exposure right on all your photos. It's for special situations...like a black dog or white wedding dress or photographing snow, stuff that fools the meter.

Why WOULD you want or need to adjust the exposure compensation in manual? You are making the choices...you don't need ec. You don't need ec in most of the times you are using av or tv mode either. (most of the time)

If you are taking a pic of a black dog the camera tends to overexpose it. So in manaul mode you could just change the settings to underexpose it just a tad. (move the shutter speed to faster setting or close down the lens a stop, no need for exposure compensation) Just look at the meter see where the tick mark is, make sure it's slightly to the left of middle.

Or in the same situation if you were in av or tv mode you could use the ec. If your meter was reading the black dog and the tick was spot on in the middle, but when you take the pic the dog is overexposed, set it to -1 and be done.

Now if your questions was, why would I want to use manual instead of av or tv...that's a different question. But you don't need exp compensation in manual because it's...well...manual. : )

Jennifer does exposure compensation actually affect the shutterspeed or fstop or how does it actually make the exposure lighter or darker??

I am not sure I helped at all except to confuse myself possibly, LOL.

[Jennifer]

Quote: Use exposure compensation when the whole scene is uniformly darker or lighter than average in tone. If the scene is uniformly darker than *average*, I will dial in -1 EV for example. This will bias the meter into giving one stop less exposure, and hence a darker image. And similarly for a scene that is lighter than average, I will dial in +1 EV for example. This will bias the meter into giving one stop more exposure, and hence a lighter image. The exact amount of compensation depends though on how dark / light the scene is and how dark / light I want to render it.

Amy you are very correct, manual IS manual in that you don't 'compensate' you just add or subtract from the meter reading when dialing in those two numbers. In effect YOU ARE compensating by how far above or below the -0- mark YOU, THE CREATIVE photographer has determined to get the exposure you need/want.

Does the compensation actually affect the SS or Ap? Nope, just biases the meter reading. If you pick 1/125 @ f/5.6 you will still get those settings and the image is biased lighter or darker. EDIT: (but I think the camera MAY acutually use a different SS or AP but in the EXIF info it's listed as exposure bias so yeah maybe it does? I didn't give this enough thougHt, need to research!)

[Emma]

no, that's not exactly what I'm asking. What Cynnder said earlier about manual not having ExComp made sense, and I see why it's not available in that mode: I do the thinking there.

In manual, YOU tell the camera to over or under expose by looking at the meter reading and making an informed decision. Like in my book, Understanding Exposure, he'll say something like, "I metered an f-whatever at 1/whatever, but I knew that in the failing evening light I should go down 1 stop bla bla bla."

How is shooting in AV or TV with ExComp any different than making a decision like that in manual mode? Maybe it's a misunderstanding on my part of what ExComp does exaclty, but to me they seem like the same thing: I make a decision to tell the camera what it thinks is not right. What's the benefit of manual over the other mode if I have ExComp for it? I'm missing something for sure.

[Jennifer]

K, in that case, using exposure compensation in AV or TV mode IS the same as using manual and bumping over or under the -ZERO- mark. But using the AV or TV mode would just have you make less decisons... you choses either the ap or the shutter and let the camera fall where it may and then to do your own thinking by EComp. In the end, you're choose two things either way, why not just go full manual.

[Cuda]

Well I am a total noob but I cant say enough about the DVD I mentioned earlier in this post.

It was 24 bucks sent two day air, very fast shipping. It covers everything about your camera and covers it well.

But first my basic focusing spew just in case...

One thing that really helped was the section on focusing.

I no longer use the "full auto" mode. I realize now that 80% of my bad shots are focusing problems.

Full auto-focus tends to focus on the wrong things and even when its correct the "depth of field" is always too tight. I end up with a dogs nose in focus but her eyes are blurry etc.

First thing that helps is not letting the camera choose the focus point. I switch to "P". Then press the button on the upper right of the back of the camera. This button allows you to choose the focus point. Then press the "set" button in the center of the direction pad. This selects the center focus point.

Thats step one. Now you can point the center focus dot on the subject and press the shutter release button half way to foucs. Hold it there and you can re-compose the shot (in cases where you dont want the subject in the center) then press the rest of the way.

So now that I can tell my camera what I want to focus on there is one more problem, depth of field. The problem of the dogs nose being in focus but not the rest of her face.

This happens when the aperture is too large (Fstop number is too low). "P" mode or "Av" mode allow you to change aperture while making sure the shutter is set correctly. Increasing the number (which will close the aperture) you increase the depth of field thus bringing more of the subject you are focusing on into focus.

These first two "lessons" have helped me quite a bit. I shot 1400 pics and got 5-6 that I really liked before. Now about 60% of my pics are good.

One way to practice is to place 3-4 objects on a table. I used salt and pepper shakers. Line them up in a row so when you place the camera at their level you can see all 4 of them. Each object should be about 4-6 inches behind the other so you can see all 4 objects (set the second shaker 4 inches behind the first and 1-2 inches to the left and repeat that for all 4).

Then I focus on the first object and play with the aperture so I get the first two shakers in focus, then I try to get the middle two, then the last two.

It helps teach you how depth of field works.

Without changing aperture you only get one in focus at a time.

In short, learning to focus the camera right will yield HUGE gains for the noobs like me.

Now the photo I have in my head I can somewhat capture with my camera.


Using the "P" mode lets the camera deal with exposure and lets the computer handle aperture and shutter combinations. You can adjust either but the camera will adjust one to compensate. If you adjust aperture to allow more depth of field like stated above the cpu will increase the time the shutter remains open.

Remember that once you start using the advanced stuff (P,Av,Tv and M) the flash will not fire unless you press the flash button on the front of the camera. Pressing that will make the flash pop up in the advanced modes.

I am just now getting into the metering so I have no noob advice on that as I have just started to play with it myself.

I doubt any of my advice will help as I am just starting out myself but I thought I would share my thoughts.

The DVD I mention at the start of this post, the manual and some playing around have really helped.

As you stated, it has helped me understand what the pros here are even talking about which is very exciting.

I will have a new baby to take pics of in about a month. If they are 1/10th as good as Jennifers I will be very pleased.

P.S. You could also get a 18% gray card from a photo store and ask here about proper white balance to get skin tones exact. Depsite being a noob I can walk you through how to do this with the Rebel, its actually pretty easy.

[Jennifer]

Thank you so much Cuda, that's some excellent information!!

[Emma]

uh-oh: my friend just called me and said the flash won't pop up at all! Could using the external have damaged it somehow? It's a SunPak made for Nikon cameras, but it worked (fired) on both the 20D and the D-Rebel. Just on the Rebel the flash wouldn't pop up, looked like the external was in the way.

Did I break it?! Did I change a setting somewhere, somehow? She has the flash on Auto and also tried On, and it won't pop up at all!

[Cuda]

If its dark and your on auto and the flash does not pop up it might be broken. Try setting on "P" and pressing the flash button (on the front). If it does not pop up right away something is wrong.

You might also want to try going into the cameras settings and doing a reset for the camera and for all custom settings. Then try again.