Photobook where they do not retain rights to my photos?

[Mashi]

I am looking to get some photobooks printed. A friend directed me to HotPoints, and I was starting to create an account when I read the Terms & Conditions, which includes the statement:

We shall have the right to use, copy, distribute, print and disclose to third parties any images uploaded by you and any other materials for the purpose of providing the Services. For the avoidance of doubt, our right to use your images and intellectual property rights shall continue in perpetuity regardless of whether you terminate your use of the Services.

Went on to Shutterfly and found this:
In the event that you post or upload to the Service, or otherwise submit to or through Shutterfly as part of your use of the Service, any materials including, without limitation, photographs and other images, text, graphics, videos, visuals, sounds, data, files, links and other materials (collectively, "Submissions"), you will retain ownership of such Submissions, and you hereby grant us and our designees a worldwide, non-exclusive, sublicenseable (through multiple tiers), assignable, royalty-free, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable right to use, reproduce, distribute (through multiple tiers), create derivative works of, and publicly display and perform (publicly or otherwise) such Submissions, solely in connection with the Service (including without limitation for purposes of promoting the Service).

This makes me SO SO SO angry.

Just wondering if anyone knows of any of the photobook sites who DO NOT stake a claim for their rights to my photos forever and ever with all rights to do with them whatever their unethical greedy cheap-arsed scummy selves want to do?

[debilou]

Good to know, and I will read very carefully from now on..

I know when I upload at say Flickr PRO - it's a photo share vs. a book making site, I do retain my rights.. they have options - I chose the option of retaining all copyrights

and, I have sold some photos thru them - but at my terms.

[webfrau]

Well spotted Mashi. I don't know, I've never used a photobook site but I'm interested to hear the answer.
A lot of places have those terms of use - I'm pretty sure anything you upload via Google is similar - so that's Google albums, picasa, blogger - I'd be happy to hear I'm wrong but I'm sure that's what I read a couple of years ago because I stopped using them.

[Mashi]

Good to know, and I will read very carefully from now on..

I know when I upload at say Flickr PRO - it's a photo share vs. a book making site, I do retain my rights.. they have options - I chose the option of retaining all copyrights

and, I have sold some photos thru them - but at my terms.

Here are the terms and conditions of Yahoo owned sites, which includes Flickr - these are the T&C that you access when you opt to upgrade to a pro account:

9.2 If you enter a content to a non-public area, you grant Yahoo, the with Yahoo! pursuant to § 15 AktG and contractors from Yahoo! the royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual right to that content (in whole or in part) worldwide to use, to the extent only to provide the service under that happens benefits offered. For this purpose it is particularly important that the content entered by you is stored on Yahoo, held ready for call, hosted on servers, technically reproduced, displayed and made available to persons who have access to the non-public area. This license exists only for as long as you want to make the Content on the non-public area accessible, and goes off when you remove the content from the non-public area.

9.3 If you enter a content in a publicly accessible areas of Yahoo, you grant Yahoo, the with Yahoo! affiliated companies and contractors from Yahoo! the royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual right to that content (in whole or in part) worldwide provision in the context of the service offered and to advertise the services to take advantage of Yahoo!. For the provision of services, it is particularly necessary, that you publish content stored on Yahoo, hosted on servers, to retrieve held, reproduced technically, presented and made available to the public. The services provided by Yahoo! also implies that Yahoo! allows its users for some services, Teaser and / or extracts of content - but not full content - display on their sites using so-called RSS feeds, and to make publicly available, as far as this teaser and / or extracts a link to that service included



At least with the Flickr account as soon as you delete the photos they remove their rights to use them. And TBH, if I could find a photobook printer that did that, I would consider it, because I would upload, print, remove. But that isn't how the photobooks work....once you have uploaded them to get them to print them, those pictures are theirs forever. :eek:

Back in the day of taking film into the drugstore and collecting pictures and negatives, no one ever said 'oh and by way of printing these, we have rights to print off a few copies for ourselves, and keep all of your negatives in a filing cabinet to do whatever we want with them, from now until the end of time, so what makes these printers think they can have that right, now?

I know there are some people who would read these T&C and not have issue with them....and truly, I would love to have some of you try to swing me to your side! Because I soooo want to not be bothered by this, but I can't convince myself that it is okay....I need someone to convince me it is!

[debilou]

I can not convince you.

I have been to a photography copyright class - given by NAPP (national association of photoshop professionals)...

And, the number of copyright infringements is on the rise.

Just because you took the photo - does not make it yours - you have to copyright it.

I can't give you the entire class here of course - but it did make me very wary of where and, how i post my photos...

[ohana_treasures]

Full disclosure to start - I'm a Heritage Makers Consultant and Heritage Makers does publish personal storybooks (aka photobooks). DSP tweeted this thread which is how I came upon it.

I have to admit I'm terrible about reading the small print and am surprised at what you found. So, I went to see what the Heritage Makers (http://www.UnboxYourPhotos.com) policies are. This is what I found under the "privacy policy":

9. Privacy of Your Content
Our website is designed to allow members to share content. You can control who may view your content, and we will never make your content publicly accessible, except by your explicit action. Employees of Heritage Makers or other third-party service providers, however, may view your content in fulfilling your order or providing customer support. Examples of content falling under this section include photos, and creative works such as templates. Your photos and creative works will never be made publicly accessible except by your explicit action and except to fulfill your order or provide customer support.

I found this under "terms of service":

1. Copyrights
Heritage Makers is, unless otherwise stated, the owner of all copyright and data rights in the service and its contents. Individuals who have posted works to this service are either the copyright owners of the component parts of that work, or are posting the work under license from a copyright owner or his or her agent, or otherwise as permitted by law. You may not reproduce, distribute, publicly display or perform, or prepare derivative works based on any of the content, including any such works without the express, written consent of Heritage Makers, or the appropriate owner of copyright in such works. Heritage Makers does not claim ownership rights in your works or other materials posted by you to this service (“Your Content”).

and it continues:

While Heritage Makers has an inspection process that helps flag potential copyright issues, this process may, or may not, be applied to your submissions at Heritage Makers’ sole discretion. Ultimately, you are responsible for the content of your images and materials. As such, it is very important that you take the time to research the images and materials that you submit, and ensure that you keep any reference material on hand in case of a dispute regarding the ownership of your images and materials. If you are not sure about the legality of reference material you did not create, please contact Heritage Makers.

So, hopefully this will ease your mind that not all companies out there want the rights to your photos and projects! :)

Melissa

[Mashi]

Thanks Ohana!! I am off to check out Heritage Makers now! Thank you for your information, it is exactly what I was looking for!

[Mashi]

Ohhh they are lovely books though....but expensive by comparison to the others!

[ohana_treasures]

Will PM you a little later on - my computer is moving really slowly right now :annoyed: and the baby is moving too quickly around on the floor!! :p


Ohhh they are lovely books though....but expensive by comparison to the others!

[Kathleen]

This list is by no mean all inclusive, but I really liked the comparisons. You might find some of them helpful. And I am definitely reading more carefully before uploading/submitting in the future!

The Great Photo Book Round-Up Review: Who Makes The Best Photo Books? (http://www.digitalhomethoughts.com/news/show/97676/the-great-photo-book-round-up-review-who-makes-the-best-photo-books.html)

[Kathleen]

I just double checked with MPix - read everything I could find, and sent an email to customer service. Their response: The images you upload are still completely yours. We will not try to assert or claim any of your images as our own.

[just-pjz]

Mashi...
I just came across this thread as I was beginning the beginning of venturing into having a book printed, lol.

So I'm wondering...did you use Heritage Makers? If so, would you be kind enough to share your thoughts/opinions/reviews about the results?

[guitargirl]

I just looked up Viovio's terms of service and they say "Ownership of any submission to the Site is wholly retained by the original copyright holder. The Sitemakes no claim whatsoever to uploaded content. In order to deliver the Service, you acknowledge and agree that any submission may be published, copied, customized, removed, transmitted and shown by the Site as specified by the copyright holder. The electronic or physical sharing of your images and materials constitutes permission for reprinting by the recipient."

[Margie]

I've liked the quality of both mpix and heritage makers books.

[just-pjz]

thanks Margie!

[just-pjz]

you know, it would be so incredibly awesometastical if the DSP Store could offer this service!
I'm just sayin'.... ;)

[cherebus]

Blurb is another where you retain ownership of any content you upload. You do license them to use your content but only to provide the services you request.

[mm1]

you know, it would be so incredibly awesometastical if the DSP Store could offer this service!
I'm just sayin'.... ;)
I agree- that would be AWESOME!!!!:yahoo::yahoo:

....and Thanks Mashi for bringing this topic to light.:applause: I came across the thread looking for the best place to have books printed and would have never thought a company would do this until I read your thread. This is good info to know!

In looking at Creative Memories site, the owner retains all copyrights but I can't find reviews on their books compared to other sites. Has anyone used them to have books printed?